Exchange!

[stxma]

With the reasoning that we have a few books in Greece, what is the problem or the obstacle for someone to make an exchange? Where, logically, maybe 90% of the players would gather?

 

[swsias7]

With the reasoning that we have a few books in Greece, what is the problem or the obstacle for someone to make an exchange? Where, logically, maybe 90% of the players would gather?

The 3 million I imagine as well as the legal obstacles that will be entered by various intertwined.
By the way, if Pinnacle enters the next wave of licensing, we will laugh a lot with the cannons that will bore various funny companies.

 

[stxma]

as well as the legal barriers that will be entered by various interlocutors.

That is, if stoiximan wanted to be both an exchange or the only exchange, what problem would he have?

 

[Lilis]

Article 11
BALANCING EVENTS

11.6. The operation of betting exchanges is prohibited.

https://www.infobeto.com/forum/threads/%CE%A5%CE%A0%CE%9F%CE%99%CE%9A-%CE%94%CF%81%CE%BF%CE%BC%CE%BF%CE%BB%CE%BF%CE%B3%CE%B5%CE%AF%CF%84%CE%B1%CE%B9-%CE%B7-%CE%B1%CE%B4%CE%B5%CE%B9%CE%BF%CE%B4%CF%8C%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%83%CE%B7-%CF%84%CF%89%CE%BD-%CF%80%CE%B1%CF%81%CF%8C%CF%87%CF%89%CE%BD-%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%B1%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%84%CF%85%CE%B1%CE%BA%CF%8E%CE%BD-%CF%84%CF%85%CF%87%CE%B5%CF%81%CF%8E%CE%BD-%CF%80%CE%B1%CE%B9%CE%B3%CE%BD%CE%AF%CF%89%CE%BD.135216/#post-1232011

 

[cosmicsports]

It is forbidden to retaliate but I do not understand the logic.
They said about lay, that it is an "immoral game".
But lay is equivalent to back. Each book could have a button that says "dutch selections" and brings out the performance of the mixed back, but it is equivalent to lay and because -depending on the rake- in some cases it may not come out, it would tell you "it does not ".
In essence, what does the law say? Is the "dutch selections" button prohibited? Then the double opportunity 1X-21-X2 must be prohibited! But it should also be banned when I make the double chance myself!
So we have a law-hybrid.
Maybe what is practically forbidden is the low rake, but by what logic again?
The buck is allowed to steal but it is not allowed to steal less ???
Stupidity and the exchanges which in the trials that took place in the European courts had lawyers of the plate and the black calamity.
They could very well even abolish the term exchange. The b ** fair would say "we are your new friendly bookmaker" - if the term did not exist.
In conclusion we do not have legal representation, that is the problem.

 

[McLaren17]

It is not only in Greece but also abroad that lay is banned in several countries, for example in some countries you can play betfair but as a bookmaker and not as an exchange

 

[cosmicsports]

In America I am told that a little bit of gambling has been allowed.
But they have a mandatory minimum rake. The state of Tennessee e.g. has a minimum of 10%.
If this is the case then maybe you's not going to call it a betting company. Betting company, exchange, Babi ...
In our country, the European courts did not enter into this process, which they could. They simply banned exchanges (outside the UK-IRE) with various legal stunts.
Tennessee says 10% exists "to guarantee the state will get something out of the bet" but - of course - American gamblers do not like the phase at all.

The exchanges are a mystery, for me, that they have such a small rake in the horses when of course they have to give to the carousels for the clover ...
The wool goes to us 6-7%, for the Filippo Union only and the same in France. But of course they take us to the total 25% rake with the other pull-ups (in favor of OPAP profitability - taxes - agencies ...).
Do the exchanges have so many customers that it is covered?
In dogs, however, bf had a 20% rake.

The malice began with the Godlatte Act during the Bush presidency and continued with Sarkozy in France.
Germany was also against the exchanges (mostly the representatives of the social democratic party, in those years). But the Germans moved on.

It is a scandal of course. April 21st junta and Albania Ember Hoxha in a package - a tax on hashish!

 

[ithinon]

VERY GREAT HISTORY OR .... BETFAIR (!!!)
Unfortunately the following happens in Greece:
It is an "equation" that cannot be solved, because the Greek Parliament is full of UNSUITABLE PERSONS (!!)
On the one hand we have a RIGHT gang of big bosses (see big interests) like Marinaki, Melissanidis, Vardinogianni, etc etc who actually help from the background, for their election in many different ways (then winning various rewards) who control the official betting companies, circulating (indirectly or directly) giving the guidelines, for the laws, which will be voted by the Parliament (or the canon) with complete disregard, for the interests of the society and consequently of the players (!) From on the other hand we have a LEFT anti-Marxist - of the ass - supposedly cut for human freedoms, the "liberation" of the proletariat etc etc etc, but for which you as a PLAYER and BETER, you are nothing more than an unwanted "capitalist" formation! Your place is in a concentration camp (Gulag) behind power lines to break stones! The funny thing is that the vast majority of players in all types of gambling from casinos to anything, are Leftist! When it comes to what the ANTARSYA will do, in case of power, they chew their words and do not know what to answer! I know more than 20 such "cases, that if you stop gambling, they will commit suicide! Not to mention the names of well-known MPs of the Left, literally sick with various gambling!
UNFORTUNATELY this is the Dominant SYSTEM and we are NECESSARILY in the middle, to eat on the MAP, all this SYNAPHI, which forces you to play with a FIXED PLAY!
It would be a good idea for someone "blessed" to build a Greek exchange (and let him not call it an exchange, as cosmic writes above) but to promote it JUDICIALLY to the last degree, to see if it is legal and constitutional, to allow the stock exchange , where we essentially have a stock exchange and at the same time to forbid the exchange, where exactly the same thing happens (!!!) Besides, the BETFAIR IDEA came exactly from the very mechanism of the stock exchange ...

 

[ithinon]

A HUGE ISSUE, which is very rarely mentioned, but is a catalyst in the lack of "claiming" power of the bettors, from the centers of the decisions is the ADVERTISING (!) magazines, newspapers, websites, radio, television etc create a HUGE income for them and thus ensure their IMPLIED cooperation! This output is "passed" with various methods to the players through the burdensome rake, the limitation and the "so I like" expulsion of the winners (especially the systematic ones) having in advance ensured the SILENCE and the LACK OF CRITICISM of the "media" (! ) I PAY YOU WITH COVERS ....This behavior is not a Greek privilege! It has been globalized! With the exception of pinnacle and a couple of others, it has almost prevailed almost everywhere. In this equation .... (controversy) unfortunately the SYSTEM always comes out won and consequently 95% of the players lost. The possibility of players to be FAIR treatment by the legislator, through securing his rights, by the arbitrariness of the books (with penal clauses, when they refuse to pay) is almost zero. If there was real (where both parties would be treated equally) and not "fictitious" democracy, at the moment, the bookstores should have been abolished and ONLY the exchanges should be on the map!

 

[cosmicsports]

A HUGE ISSUE, which is very rarely mentioned, but is a catalyst in the lack of "claiming" power of the bettors, from the centers of the decisions is the ADVERTISING (!) magazines, newspapers, websites, radio, television etc create a HUGE income for them and thus ensure their IMPLIED cooperation! This output is "passed" with various methods to the players through the burdensome rake, the limitation and the "so I like" expulsion of the winners (especially the systematic ones) having in advance ensured the SILENCE and the LACK OF CRITICISM of the "media" (! ) I PAY YOU WITH COVERS ....This behavior is not a Greek privilege! It has been globalized! With the exception of pinnacle and a couple of others, it has almost prevailed almost everywhere. In this equation .... (controversy) unfortunately the SYSTEM always comes out won and consequently 95% of the players lost. The possibility of players to be FAIR treatment by the legislator, through securing his rights, by the arbitrariness of the books (with penal clauses, when they refuse to pay) is almost zero. If there was real (where both parties would be treated equally) and not "fictitious" democracy, at the moment, the bookstores should have been abolished and ONLY the exchanges should be on the map!

We know this well from advertising since the time of Noah.
In 85, Kouris' "Standard 13" came out. So they wrote to us in a series of issues that "they are forming a club of PROPO players so that the PROPO players can claim their rights from OPAP" - in relation to the rake obviously. So one day I get a phone call and they say "yes, there will be a dressing room, on Korinnis Street, the street just behind Koumoundourou Square which is". But when I took it again after a while they said to me again, "Come on, forget it!".
He was also the agent known at the time in Ilioupoli who was introduced to us as the "locker room" of Filathlos, close to Paraskevas at first. So he, while in the beginning he played it "for the rights of the people", he turned it around and became a super-op. He also broke up with Paraskeva when the latter started distributing Cypriot coupons.
The same and all the later ones in the media.

It is impressive. We read every day about scandals and various triggers.
We have the illusion that something like this must happen between Dreyfus and Watergate.
But no one cares!
Here in the infobeto forum with the taxation of OPAP in foreign horse racing, which is normally and according to the current law invalid, the other told us "tell it in the Document".
I did not know then what "Document" is, it has been four years. I knew a tabloid circulating in the newsstands but I still did not know who it was with and what and how.
So I get a phone call, the sports writer heard the story but he wrote to me normally.
But the exact same thing happened with the News!

It was not always like that. Until 85, the newspapers around there also wrote in opposition about OPAP.
But also in 2003 the robia with the so-called LOTTO book that cost 65,000 euros, wrote it in 12X.
So there someone had taken out for LOTTO a booklet like the ancient "Kordi systems guide" - the orange block and it was sponsored by the public OPAP with 65,000 euros! There was never an agent who took this out of the drawer to play even one. So the 12X exploded for them.
But now it has become a "military government".

 

[cosmicsports]

The left believes in kolkhoz-komsomol. They do not dare to deal with Europe-USA because they will cut their vacation in Biarritz, but they believe in kolkhoz-komsomol.

The right depends.
Blair was good (for the bet).
Samaras is a tax evader, as is Bush in America with the 2008 ban.

In the end, this is where the violin case comes from.
We are not - we the players - children whose milk has been cut off by OPAP so that the ... UN can be interested.
We are not like the other company with the gold of Macedonia that Syriza prevented with the ... cormorants.
We are just friends of sports and betting.

There is a scratch mentality.
Do you remember the PASOK deputy minister of 2001? In relation to the Greek racetrack, he had stated "why don't all of them play scratch, I get 60% in taka-taka but they want a racetrack?".
So what else do the latter say?
As long as there are grandparents and stupid housewives this will happen.

 

[ithinon]

The profits of the bookies are huge and with the impunity that prevails, the mass is endless. Once they have the power and ability to manipulate decision centers, they will simply do so. In relation to the racecourse because I read the English forums, all the punters moan, because they see that the bucks have coordinated their behavior and systematically slash the horses' performances even after the start of the race. For example, the 4 favorites started 6/1,5, 1/4,5, (1 / 2,5), (1 / XNUMX) and the four lower at start-up, to an unacceptable degree! In fact, everyone is "tuned" in dt time, ie they use the same torque generator !! The underdogs of the race do not rise to the corresponding level, but very little! The initiates understand what I write. So they keep the over round high in a technical way, without representing the real market. In the long run this behavior hurts the same the sport, since it systematically removes the world! In the exchanges the odds are significantly better and especially in the outsiders almost better, even if the bucks use them themselves, to insure the game they accept! But be aware of this: Books acquired BETFAIR (paddy power) and betdaq (landbrokes) in order to sabotage them from within, controlling their activity. Liquidity has been significantly reduced and in horses and in football! With the original ownership status, the turnovers in the Arsenal-Liverpool match, for example, were 4 times higher than today. Also everything else: sportsbook, casino, virtual games are all the same as the books (empty pockets)

 

[swsias7]

And of course when you hit them in trading they cry and cut your bill. Okay, the story with the books has become tragic. Anyone can make money from pinncale and exchange for good. The rest either feed the thieves or have an account with an expiration date.

 

[cosmicsports]

I have thought about the issue from many angles.
In principle, the situation is not the fault of the bucks.
The form of the transaction with the bookies is the one that creates the problems and only if there was a mutual we were saved everywhere.
That is, I should have put it on now with my friend Boubis because after the Grand Pleasure he had told me I would not play you again. Mr. ithinon who reads understands what I mean.

Now why is no one talking about all this arbitrariness that is being done, bullshit, state, tax collectors etc?
Of course many speak but they are scorpions. We do not have a Brussels lobby.
We have also lost our friends the islanders, for what they were worth, after their brexi.
The strongest I have seen in an official protest movement was right2bet, an organization founded in 2007 by betfair that also posted funny videos with the referee on youtube. They were betfair, they were not spontaneous fans, but at least.
I said to help them but I learned about them relatively late - a Belgian told me in 2009. We said something but it was over. After the ban law that came out in America and after the similar law that Sarkozy issued in France, they dissolved it. I wrote - there was no one to answer me, the facebook community was abandoned.
Other similar moves were very tiny.

But why ;
The following also happens. People who play eat coats. If he deals with our ... anarcho-syndicalists a little, after some coats come to him he will get bored.
At one point I had a friend who one day the cracks came
of Margaritis-Theodorakis all back, a bunch of apes and he told me "let me stop it from today" - and he kept it.
They are not like other trade unionists.
And some professionals-semi-professionals in the field at some point are all opaque and of course you lose them.
There are some who are afraid of the case, to come out branded.
On TV, I only remember Steve Kaketsis once when he went out with them
had cracked on panels - years go by now. Noone else. The others were the various florumps with their backs turned that said "our gambling destroyed us" and such (this was done in order to drop more taxes).

As far as the special case of horse racing is concerned, the bet has fallen a lot. But here we also have OPAP to run the races and he does not care. It is good that he has fallen, he says. And of course the state does not care.

We are generally far behind.
This is also a situation that we may not have always understood.
At the Faliro racecourse, I remember one day in 1993 he lost the favorite Power from Fotopoulos' Democrat and it was ruined. He had honestly lost but he was ruined. This world no longer exists but I believe that little by little they took us by surprise that we are only for boogie and that we are lyre hens.

No more chickens.
The other with the TV we became resilient.
In June 2000, the racetrack decided that the live broadcasts would be done by the NOVA subscription.
So if you stayed home one day you could not see - you had to buy a subscription,
Internet and YouTube tools did not exist then.
So Tsaousis says we will make a protest march for this thing and
he also wrote in his magazine in a series of issues.
I say ok, I will go down and in the morning of the day of the march I did before I go and a walk from two or three agencies and I told my grandparents.
They call me nice but no one moved to come with them.
So I go down to the parking lot of the kiosk that was the starting point of the "march". I see Tsaousi, Kyriakos Pazarloglou, Poly who had the souvlaki in Pagrati and Tony - the famous hawk with the bicycle that came out every night on Sport FM in those years.
What course to take? No one else came. That is, three because Tsaousis himself and Pazarloglou are not caught.
It was also a patrol car and the police tell us ... "we came to keep order" and there was also a reporter of Mega and one of Antenna who had found out. But of course they were making fun of us.
We are such a coward.
The live broadcast remained on Nova for four years, of course.

 

[ithinon]

Things are simple:

In a claim it is not enough to be just right. Before you start anything, you have to weigh all the factors. If you are right the next step is to evaluate the opponent. If the opponent has "good ears" and is willing to listen to the problem, then he is fine. If he is willing to solve the problem, then even better. But when not is willing to give a solution, then you should, seek to find, someone way to force him! All things in life are a matter of strategy and proper treatment.! Once upon a time in the Delta, Aslanidis dared, to tease her rake and the (hitherto) unthinkable happened: the world closed its gates and not allowed the races to take place. !! This move (mat) was a complete success (after Aslanidis took the steps back), but he succeeded, for a very simple reason: because 90% of the game was done (then) within "Mantras"! Today it is something like that impossible, because 100% of the game is done except Markopoulos! OPAP is arbitrary, because it is enormously uncontrollable! It holds the ground monopoly until 2030, without an opponent, with its hundreds of thousands of players suffering the consequences, without reaction! I could write a book on the subject (arbitrariness) with thousands of examples! Let me just mention a Feature: About ten years ago, I was in a relatively quiet agency and playing horse racing. Next to me is a student (Cypriot) and he plays English greyhound racing. Then you could play the complex (forecast, TRICAST) in greyhound racing. He was constantly playing (the lad) and he lost enough, if you count, that it combined 4 dogs with each other quadrupeds! At some point after two hours, I hear him celebrating! He had caught a TRICAST, which paid close to 1600 €, that is, they had arrived on arrival and the three outsiders! But when the agent put the paper in the machine,not he paid for it (!!) Of course that if he had lost it, they would not give it to him When his money back (!) After dozens of phone calls, you know what they found, as an excuse (?) That the race had - supposedly - started (!) haha! Then why did the paper come out (?)
Tespa .... where I want to end up is, that individually one can not do anything! The only relatively realistic solution ..... is to establish OPAP TOYS PLAYERS ASSOCIATION with a statute, seat and registration in the court of first instance which, could face realistically ..... with a multi-page lawsuit (and 100 witnesses) OPAP to the last degree (!) If the players from the state do not succeed in criminal clauses (in any arbitrariness) NOTHING is done.

 

[cosmicsports]

Things are simple:

In a claim it is not enough to be just right. Before you start anything, you have to weigh all the factors. If you are right the next step is to evaluate the opponent. If the opponent has "good ears" and is willing to listen to the problem, then he is fine. If he is willing to solve the problem, then even better. But when not is willing to give a solution, then you should, seek to find, someone way to force him! All things in life are a matter of strategy and proper treatment.! Once upon a time in the Delta, Aslanidis dared, to tease her rake and the (hitherto) unthinkable happened: the world closed its gates and not allowed the races to take place. !! This move (mat) was a complete success (after Aslanidis took the steps back), but he succeeded, for a very simple reason: because 90% of the game was done (then) within "Mantras"! Today it is something like that impossible, because 100% of the game is done except Markopoulos! OPAP is arbitrary, because it is enormously uncontrollable! It holds the ground monopoly until 2030, without an opponent, with its hundreds of thousands of players suffering the consequences, without reaction! I could write a book on the subject (arbitrariness) with thousands of examples! Let me just mention a Feature: About ten years ago, I was in a relatively quiet agency and playing horse racing. Next to me is a student (Cypriot) and he plays English greyhound racing. Then you could play the complex (forecast, TRICAST) in greyhound racing. He was constantly playing (the lad) and he lost enough, if you count, that it combined 4 dogs with each other quadrupeds! At some point after two hours, I hear him celebrating! He had caught a TRICAST, which paid close to 1600 €, that is, they had arrived on arrival and the three outsiders! But when the agent put the paper in the machine,not he paid for it (!!) Of course that if he had lost it, they would not give it to him When his money back (!) After dozens of phone calls, you know what they found, as an excuse (?) That the race had - supposedly - started (!) haha! Then why did the paper come out (?)
Tespa .... where I want to end up is, that individually one can not do anything! The only relatively realistic solution ..... is to establish OPAP TOYS PLAYERS ASSOCIATION with a statute, seat and registration in the court of first instance which, could face realistically ..... with a multi-page lawsuit (and 100 witnesses) OPAP to the last degree (!) If the players from the state do not succeed in criminal clauses (in any arbitrariness) NOTHING is done.

I do not know if the court of first instance will approve it.
Probably not.
The (old) horse race PANEFIL was approved in 1999. But in 2002 Metaxas went to establish an association of agents - as he had become more interested in agencies. So he writes in his presentation, among other things, "the purpose of the union is the utilization of the new internet technology for the promotion of the interests of the blah-blah-blah agents ...".
I wrote them because my uncles did not have a computer and word processing then and I tell them "stop - OPAP has started chasing the internet and maybe they will object if you write this".
The agencies answer me "come on, you do not know - you write". They objected to this, they rejected them, they appealed, they rejected them again. Of course, it had been written about boogio, nothing to do with their intention to get involved in online betting.
But it is not a necessity. A player lobby does not need to have a legal stamp.
Basically this is needed if we hope to get ... a bonus from the government, to become an NGO!

A club like PANEFIL could take many forms.
From ordinary bus renters to get people to Markopoulo, to a demanding union.
In the beginning and until 2006, it was militant, but at the same time, for the football bet, they did not want to hear anything at all, to be saved from the laws of GAP-Samara.
These laws were made in 2011 and in the form that is in force now in 2013. But since 2006 there has been a threat.
Specifically when the European constitution was voted against in France-Netherlands and then the others withdrew it
Things started to get difficult, while a year ago it seemed that monopoly
had been defeated.

Now why the people of PANEFIL proceeded to the formation of God and their soul.
Metaxas was apolitical. In 92, when the American elections took place, Clinton-Bush asked us "who he is
the Republican and who is the Democrat between the two? "
Then New Democracy played it, then education.
I tell him "buddy, I do not know if Panathinaikakias and Touloupaki closed in 20 while they had to close 10, or if they closed in 20 while they had to close 30, but don't worry".
History, of course, became a robe.

These are difficult times for princes.