Online gambling for a few and powerful

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Online gambling for a few and powerful

VANGELIS MANDRAVELIS - Daily

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Following the example of France, the Greek government intends to promote the liberalization of online gambling.

Both the draft law, presented by the Ministry of Finance (YPOIK) last October, and the draft regulation on online gambling, presented last month by the regulatory authority (EEEP), show that the country is seeking market opening, but this should be done with a very small number of players. As happened in France a decade ago, the current Greek government is shaping a rather oligopolistic market, in which very few and strong companies will have a future.

This is approximately the case in the current market landscape. There are 24 companies that have a temporary license, but those that have voluntarily complied with the rules of the Ministry of Finance and the EEEP are counted on the fingers of one hand. Three of them last year controlled 89% of turnover and 91% of gross revenue. "I do not see more than two or three players in the market," admits an experienced gambler. The parameters that will determine the number of players will be mainly two: First, the one-time license price and, second, the type of assets that will be allowed to take place in the new context.

Regarding the one-time cost of entering the market, the government has undoubtedly set it very high. The cost of the 5-year type A license (pre-determined betting) has been set at € 4 million and € 1 million for type B licenses (other games).

The amounts are considered high at a time when in other countries, more populous than Greece, the cost of these licenses is in the order of tens of thousands of euros or a few hundred thousand euros. The average in the above countries is in the range of 70 to 100.000 euros per year, ie 350 to 500.000 euros in five years. The bar for entering the domestic market was therefore set very high by the Greek government.

A similar policy was implemented by France in 2010, when it opened the online market. At the time, the country's regulatory authority (ARJEL) had set the cost of each license at 8 million.

The same is expected to happen here. Due to the nature of the Internet, online gambling operators compete globally.

As a result, the profit margins are low, both for the casinos and for OPAP. It is worth mentioning that out of the 7 billion that Greek players bet on the Internet last year, their gross income (gross gaming revenue or GGR) did not exceed 400 million or 6% of the turnover.

Of these 140 million or 35% of the GGR will be received by the Greek state in the form of game tax (GGR Tax). On the other hand, online operators have lower operating costs as they do not utilize strong fixed assets.

However, the barriers of the Greek government do not stop here. Like the French government in the past, the Greek government wants to limit online games that are based entirely on luck. These are games based on random number generators (RNG) and are known as "slots". France banned them for addiction. According to psychologists, games based on completely random contingencies are more addictive than others, such as e.g. is sports betting.

The Greek government, however, has one more reason to seek a ban on these games via RNG. It wants to prevent any legal action by OPAP, which in 2011 paid 560 million euros to obtain the license of VLTs, whose operation is based on RNGs. Market participants say that in case the Greek government would like to offer such licenses, it should expect an appeal to the arbitration from OPAP. The latter, in fact, during the consultation that took place a few days ago, asked for further clarification on this issue.

However, unlike OPAP, all providers opposed this ban on these games. Intralot, PokerStars, the association of online gambling providers RGA, bet365 etc. They consider that this ban will leave the liberalization of the specific market incomplete, while at the same time it will push the market to illegal providers. Even Regency Casino Administrator said the ban was wrong. "We believe that blocking the existence of gambling with a random number generator (RNG) on the Internet, which is very popular, can create problems in the smooth regulation of the market, affecting competition and reducing revenue for the State, as many will choose illegal gambling ", it is mentioned in the relevant consultation.


The prohibition

Internet service providers estimate that the ban will cost the market 25% of its size. This loss corresponds to approximately € 1,7 billion in bets and € 100 million in gross revenue (GGR). Also, as it is underlined, the Greek State will lose annual taxes of the order of 35 million euros.

However, there are many who believe that it will be difficult for the government to "comply" with a market that has learned to operate RNG-based games for years. This will be a gamble for many, including OPAP and its competitors.


Who is interested in licenses

The number of people interested in online gambling licenses will depend on the final decisions of the government and especially on whether gambling based on completely random events (RNG) will be allowed.

What is certain is that both OPAP and its 70% GML subsidiary, which operates under the Stoiximan brand, will claim at least one betting license. It is not excluded that the second of the two may also claim the type B license that includes the "other games" related to live casino gambling. Greek casino companies, which theoretically have the infrastructure to offer the games, may also be interested in these licenses.

The third license is expected to be claimed by the Cypriot interests B2B Gaming Services Malta, which is the second most important provider in our country.

Beyond that, participation remains fluid. Big names abroad such as GVC Holdings, The Stars Group etc. seem to balance the situation, but keep the door open for a possible entry into the market.

The final decisions, however, will be made based on the final conditions that will make the market liberalization in our country. It is reminded that GVC Holdings operates under various brands such as Bwin, Sportingbet etc. The Stars Group controls the PokerStars, Betstars and other brands.

Most of the above services currently operate under the temporary licensing regime, through their subsidiaries or through their contracts with third parties holding the temporary licenses and are normally based in Malta. Very few took part in the consultation (The Stars Group, bet365) although the majority of stakeholders were theoretically represented by the Remote Gambling Association (RGA).
 
Answer: Online gambling for a few and powerful

They have to leave them all.
Otherwise it is not called a free market. It is called junta system.
Then whoever steals the state or the players or does limiting, from the ear and to the teacher.

I will play in the big ones, I know that.
But the monopoly is to the detriment of the whole.
In essence, the state accepts bribes in exchange for allowing impunity in some (see OPAP first and best unscrupulous).
 
Answer: Online gambling for a few and powerful

Question. The millions of euros that a license will cost, will include the tax evasion committed by the 3 "big ones";

In 2019 I asked for a profit certificate 2018 in one of the 3 "big" companies. And while (according to a careful count in my betting history) I was waiting for the certificate to write somewhere in the 3000 euro net profit, I was surprised to see that, in 2018 my account recorded a net profit of the astronomical amount of 60 euros!

The answer of the company: The 3000 euros that I won were from offers! That is, from risk-free bets, since the amount of the bet was not deducted from my account, and the amount I won can not be included in the certificate of winnings.

In a few words. You deposit in a company on 1-1-2018 300 € and on 31-12-2018 you have made it 3300 €, you ask for everything and they send it to you. You have put in your pocket a net profit of 3 thousand and when you ask for a proof of profit they tell you that you mainly bet in offers so it is as if you did not win, we do not cut your receipt, regardless of whether you gave us 300 and we gave you 3300.
It is as if you asked them to show the Roi of your account to the tax authorities.
The conclusion is yours to make.


And because it is good to say names, due to personal experience I imagine you are talking about STOIXIMAN, right?
 
Answer: Online gambling for a few and powerful

I try to understand the logic inside or outside quotes and I come to the conclusion that free bets are deducted from the winnings. eg + - you are +3000 euros there comes and tells you you have 3000 euros profit you took part in 100 offers with 30 euros free bet so I gave you from my pocket 3000 to play so 3000 euros profit -3000 euros free bets I gave you the your profit zero.
Does that make sense? as reasoning you do not call it irrational, but here we are talking about taxation so the issue is whether it is tax legal, I do not know at all!
If it is tax-legal, is it moral to avoid taxes with this type of donation? Here I will say with enough irony that I know: What is legal is also moral !!! this was a statement by a politician of this country in a bulletin of 9. That night I realized how soft I am about the way I saw things.
In our case, you went to the trouble of seeing all the full bets and that cash you can get as a bonus (at last year's Australian open he also gave cash as a percentage of the turnover, this year as a subsidiary of opap none of them).
 
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Answer: Online gambling for a few and powerful

I say to form a government in a few months MERA25 as retaliation! : twis:: banana:
 
Answer: Online gambling for a few and powerful

[FONT = &] The required message in the ad says "risk of losing property". [/ FONT]

[FONT = &] So as a government you think you are restricting gambling because people are in danger of losing their money. By what logic then do you increase the risk and loss of property of the poor with huge taxes? [/ FONT]

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</w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Κανονικός πίνακας"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0cm; mso-para-margin-right:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0cm; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]-->[FONT = &] The huge license cost and 35% of gross revenue are not corporate taxes. These are transferred as VAT on the cost of each bet. Especially in oligopolies where there is no competition to protect the customer from the risk of losing property [/ FONT][FONT = &]. 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Answer: Online gambling for a few and powerful

I wonder about the specific "problem" of filing with the tax office ... if you want to declare you do it in 100 ways, and if the company tells you that it is a gift and can not consider it a profit, so be it, they have lawyers everywhere.

Thousands of Chocolates were distributed as gifts to children, you do not have a receipt there as it is a gift from the company or which has paid the construction cost, there is no cabinet.
 
Answer: Online gambling for a few and powerful

I wonder about the specific "problem" of filing with the tax office ... if you want to declare you do it in 100 ways, and if the company tells you that it is a gift and can not consider it a profit, so be it, they have lawyers everywhere.

Thousands of Chocolates were distributed as gifts to children, you do not have a receipt there as it is a gift from the company or which has paid the construction cost, there is no cabinet.
I wonder why my comment bothered you, judging by the dislike. Let us know if you are a representative or employee of this particular company.
It is not a problem for me, I have certificates from other companies. But it could be a problem if we were not talking about 3k profits but much more..That's what we say. There was no problem but it could have occurred. The company 's logic was disturbed, no problem was created.
You mention 100 ways but you did not think if the other wants to declare with one, with the one he considers right, since in this way the profits came out.
 
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Answer: Online gambling for a few and powerful

Instead of saying thank you to the companies that we have 0 rake and we enjoy our time I hear exaggerations at least ... I am not the stranger or the suspect here, I see you have the fly.

If they tell you that it is from a gift and does not have a receipt, so be it ... in supermarkets when you pay for shampoo and they give you an emollient as a gift, the receipt does not say it, if you collect 1000 bottles you will explain to the tax office that you found them.
 
Answer: Online gambling for a few and powerful

Instead of saying thank you to the companies that we have 0 rake and we enjoy our time I hear exaggerations at least ... I am not the stranger or the suspect here, I see you have the fly.

If they tell you that it is from a gift and does not have a receipt, so be it ... in supermarkets when you pay for shampoo and they give you an emollient as a gift, the receipt does not say it, if you collect 1000 bottles you will explain to the tax office that you found them.
In fact, in your opinion, the player should say thank you to a company that gives him 0 rake in a single match or two of the 500 he has every day.
For the remaining 499 or 498 that have scratches close to 10% in many of them, you did not say anything about whether the player should say thank you to the company.
For the limits, the maxbet 1-2 € that puts so much fun even for players who do not even play arbitrage, late bets etc and who just play fair odds, reading 10-12 hours a day you also did not say anything.

Obviously for you it is suspicious even for someone to play a bet correctly only when he has an advantage, and only the player who plays with the logic "this ace will come out" is correct.
Unless by that I mean what I mean by "weird's suspicious" I'm probably rinsing or something like that, so I'm going to tell you dearly that if I did that, the only sure thing would be that I would not even post on forums .

Υ.Γ. As for what you said that you spend your time happily playing a bet on 0 rake, I will tell you that you do very well, but some other players do not play to have a good time, but to win, and as legal as you are else they are just as legal.
 
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Answer: Online gambling for a few and powerful

With 0 rake you win ... you essentially save the money that the company gives you as a gift and in addition you have a pleasant time, plus the offers that are even better than zero.

Apart from ingratitude, there is also the issue of exaggeration ... here you are asking PPC to tell you how much of the 1500 euros you owe in electricity and to pay and how much to ERT and the municipality and it does not allow you !!!
It cuts off your electricity, the number one good today and we do not talk, but we shout that a company gives money out of its pocket as a gift for us because it does not write it to us,
 
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Answer: Online gambling for a few and powerful

If they tell you that it is from a gift and does not have a receipt, so be it ... in supermarkets when you pay for shampoo and they give you an emollient as a gift, the receipt does not say it, if you collect 1000 bottles you will explain to the tax office that you found them.

The earnings certificate is issued by betting companies, so you DO NOT need to explain to the tax collector who found the money.

Let's say I made a net profit of one thousand euros from stoiximan, which he deposited in my bank account. I ask for a certificate of winnings and he tells me that you won 500 and not 1000, because the other 500 came from offers. So I declare to the tax office the 500 out of 1000. The remaining 500 (which are in the bank), how will you justify them to the tax office? You will tell him that they were profits from offers, so they do not count? Will you spray them with Ajax to make them invisible?
 
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Answer: Online gambling for a few and powerful

With 0 rake you win ... you essentially save the money that the company gives you as a gift and in addition you have a pleasant time, plus the offers that are even better than zero.

Apart from ingratitude, there is also the issue of exaggeration ... here you are asking PPC to tell you how much of the 1500 euros you owe in electricity and to pay and how much to ERT and the municipality and it does not allow you !!!
It cuts off your electricity, the number one good today and we do not talk, but we shout that a company gives money out of its pocket as a gift for us because it does not write it to us,
That is, you are now telling us that it is too much for someone not to want to get involved with the tax authorities.
If you win an amount, and let's say it is big or just respectable, do you consider it excessive to ask for a certificate of profit to avoid getting involved with the law?

We tell you that he does not even let you play since the limit is 1 and 2 euros and you are talking about ingratitude.
What do not you understand? The player plays, he loses everything well. He starts to win, they take him for granted, maxbet 1-2 euros. Their right, of course, but the player is not ungrateful. He risked his money and won, he must thank himself for playing properly and not the company.
He will find a company to play his bet elsewhere, he is not happy with the Greek company that accepts him as a customer. He can be grateful if he only had this company as an option or if this company was much better than all the others, if it operated differently from the others, such as an exchange.
If a company deserved to be told by all the players "thank you for it" it was just betfair, no more.
 
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Answer: Online gambling for a few and powerful

There are laws in the country ... if the forum makes a gift to the winner of the competition that takes place here, it cannot provide him with the certificate you want.
People clearly told you, if somewhere they do not calculate it correctly and in addition to the gift you would have a profit with a normal rake, it is a matter for those responsible to see it.


In general, the laws are not perfect, they create problems and many of them take advantage of them, so people then rightly shout at something glaring ..
This is PPC that does not tell you how much you owe it, so you can not pay it.

But here we are talking about a small detail, with many easy solutions from a company that GIVES you money as a gift just to put you in the game and I think whoever has the energy should deal with real issues.
 
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Answer: Online gambling for a few and powerful

But here we are talking about an insignificant detail, with many easy solutions from a company that GIVES you money as a gift to put in the game and we should probably say thank you and deal with the real scammers.
It is not insignificant. I did NOT mention somewhere that a problem was created, since the amount was not large. .

You say a lot of easy solutions. In fact. That is, if you win 50-60 thousand and they do not give you a profit certificate, you have the solution ready and in fact easily. Probably your profession gives you the opportunity to declare very large amounts whenever you do not care. If you need employees do a post here in the information network, you will also offer jobs to your teammates.

You also say that someone should say thank you to a company that gave him the opportunity to win some money through offers. The fact that before giving him the offers he might have deposited-lost many times more than what he won through offers did not cross your mind. Not that he could have lost and in fact a lot by playing offers. A couple of all in a bucket period is enough to send you even deeper into the bucket, and there are many players who do not have patience, among them me older.

As for the "real scammers" you mention at the end, why did they do it a little more in detail again because I did not catch it and did not understand who you mean
 
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Answer: Online gambling for a few and powerful

I said that there are real swindlers who take advantage of imperfections of laws to deal with ... (PPC - I do not tell you how much you owe me - I collect for others - I cut you serious services)

Nor do I have anything to do with what you say ... with simple logic if you work somewhere it will give you payroll, if you buy something it will give you a receipt, if you get a gift from a company, or your brother or find it on the street you will just state if should)
 
Answer: Online gambling for a few and powerful

I would like to ask a question to friend blizard.

Say that I make around 10 thousand from the betting net that is in Greece, let's say betting does not give you a certificate of winnings for such a large amount. You want to buy a car and you buy it. Your income is not justified by the car because it is lower than what you get, well-known relatives can not justify it, how do you justify these 10 thousand since the company does not give you a certificate of profit?

Be careful I do not want an answer of the style "There are laws that you do, there is still a window, there are solutions etc" generalizations etc I ask something specific I want a specific answer so law or article that this here covers you. You know something?
 
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Answer: Online gambling for a few and powerful

I said that there are real swindlers who take advantage of imperfections of laws to deal with ... (PPC - I do not tell you how much you owe me - I collect for others - I cut you serious services)

Nor do I have anything to do with what you say ... with simple logic if you work somewhere it will give you payroll, if you buy something it will give you a receipt, if you get a gift from a company, or your brother or find it on the street you will just state if should)
In a previous comment you mentioned laws that exist in the country, without saying whether they are correct or not, and now you are comparing dissimilar things. Another is the payroll or if you find them on the street, and another is to bet on a company.
Theoretically always, when you bet you are likely to lose a lot, but there are also some chances to win a lot.

When you lose everything well. We do not care how you managed and went deep into the bucket all year, as long as you had not made deposits through credit-debit viva, because if you made this mistake we will try to take you and if you can not justify the amounts you deposit, and we are not interested in the fact that by gambling the money through deposits-withdrawals is recycled.

But you can also win. And while in this case, since they want to talk about a legal bet, the legislation should have provided for you if you are lucky for a year or if you generally have skills and therefore an advantage, they may force you to you hide and have problems, very simply because some people who make laws have no idea and of course some others may take advantage of windows of the law and state how much they want for the turnover they make..For yes I accepted 300k turnover today but the 250 I accepted them from players who play in offers. So 50k turnover..And soon it will not be possible for a company to do such a thing. We are talking about the Greece of business and combo, and we have seen so much happen that something like this would be a sin and normal to happen.

In your previous comments, you constantly wrote that the betting company that gives the player the opportunity to win a respectable amount during the year through offers is a blessing. I will tell you that it does no good. Thanks yes he would if he continued to let the player play with a decent maxbet, if he continued to give offers. The decent maxbet in my case existed 4-5 years ago, the offers lasted only a few months, stopped in 2018. Their right of course but not to say that they do us a favor that they exist. The legislation that allows them to manage customers by selecting only the "good" ones does them a favor. copies of odds they make in pregame, the sleep they sometimes have and with their good maxbets you steal churches if you hit them on some mistakes they make.

Also, maybe a few years before I had lost 3 times in this company. I should add that if someone wins steadily, he usually plays based on a specific strategy that gives him a certain percentage of advantage in the long run. This requires many hours of reading, and searching. Also, playing in offers requires many hours. The money you earn in a company through promotions can be even less than what you would earn by playing elsewhere based on your strategy. for your regular bets, so there is no question of grace. The same or more you would win by playing regular bets without offers elsewhere.
 
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Answer: Online gambling for a few and powerful

I would like to ask a question to friend blizard.

Say that I make around 10 thousand from the betting net that is in Greece, let's say betting does not give you a certificate of winnings for such a large amount. You want to buy a car and you buy it. Your income is not justified by the car because it is lower than what you get, well-known relatives can not justify it, how do you justify these 10 thousand since the company does not give you a certificate of profit?

Be careful I do not want an answer of the style "There are laws that you do, there is still a window, there are solutions etc" generalizations etc I ask something specific I want a specific answer so law or article that this here covers you. You know something?
I hope you do not get an answer of the style "you buy a Mazda RX8" with a vanke motor, so 9 taxable as much as 1300 amps
 
Answer: Online gambling for a few and powerful

Sorry I was late to answer because it was complicated and I was thinking about it :)

There are many ways to declare it and there have always been boxes in the declaration, sorry I do not have them, there are only room for money laundering, there is only money laundering, but what comes from a bank and big companies is not black anyway.

The meaning of the receipt and the invoice, is when you have GIVEN money for a service, which are also reflected next to the product ... and in the end they make the receipts and tell him how much they have received and what products you have received.
For FREE product they can not burn a receipt ..... they gave you the money and as they said you never took it out, so you basically did NOT pay ANYTHING and how to cut you?


For example, Ion gives 1000 chocolates to a foundation for children for free, she can NOT cut a receipt ... that the foundation had bought 100 chocolates a few months ago and paid for them is a separate receipt and completely irrelevant and cannot be combined .

We can not blame them for giving something without being paid ... the declaration of the institution's desire does not concern them, and the possibility of tax evasion that you say I do not understand in the gift and loss of a company, but in any case there are inexperienced accountants for these things .... we here can only say what stands out, PPC's, and not look tall in the hay
 
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