"Final" qualification in Ukraine, with both teams needing a positive result. Shakhtar have come from three consecutive draws in the Champions League, with a goal / goal in the last four. Atalanta is playing for the 16, wants a win and at the same time Dynamo Zagreb will not win Manchester City. Couple with a full aggressive philosophy and plenty of defenses in the defensive mode, it will be difficult to keep the score low. Select the Asian Over 3 goals with 1.72 in Betshop. 

At yesterday's premiere of his clubs Champions League we may not have seen many goals, but we certainly made some important conclusions.

European champions Liverpool lost at Napoli headquarters (2-0), Inter's' troublemaker 'saved the game against Prague's Slavia, scoring a goal at 90 + 2' (1-1) and a tie-breaker Surprise and won at Stamford Bridge, Chelsea, in a match where the Blue lost a penalty to equalize at 87 '.

In short, we saw several surprises yesterday (as we highlighted yesterday's column), with only two favorites (Salzburg-Ajax) verified. As you understand, special attention is needed now to get started. Let's go - but - now look at today's games.

Olympiacos - Tottenham: Betshop bet on 1.74 g / g

Difficult star premiere for our country's only representative in the top biennial competition.

Η Tottenham - as we know - is the finalist of last year's competition, has great quality in her roster and comes out of her best appearance this year (4-0 at Crystal Palace). Its powerful weapon is the attack, and defensively we think it will face problems.

Ο Olympic at home he draws strength from the presence of his world, against Krasnodar he has scored 4 times and generally finds the goal one way or another at home. The goal / goal in Betshop's 1.74 is optional.

Paris Saint-Germain - Real Madrid: Value in the "double"

The news that emerges in her report PSZ is the absence of Neymar-Cavani-M-Bape. We are talking about the basic aggressive French triple, which is also its biggest advance. In his last home game against Strasbourg, it took Neymar's (now punished) stunning finish to win the race late.

Η Real Madrid has not yet found a solid footing, but it has players such as Cros, Azar, Benzema, Hames and Bale. Players capable of making the difference and certainly (again) an experienced coach on the bench, with whom he has had many successes.

Stoiximan offers the race with 0% rake, which makes the 'Queen of Europe' 'double' on 3,15 particularly attractive.

Atletico Madrid - Juventus: Card betting

A derby premiere at the 4 Group. The two strongest teams in the group clash again after almost half a year, with all that happened last year (with Diego Simone and Ronaldo) in the back of their minds.

In both of their duels last year we had 4 cards, 3 for Atletico Madrid and 1 for Juventus. Atletico Madrid has for years acquired the aggressive style of its technician, Simone, and easily loses control.

We'll deal with the cards in this particular match by betting on "More home cards" at Betshop's well-paid 2,65.

So the time has come to whip up the start of her clubs top cross-country competition.

Coming up with the ... stars we will go all the way to the end of May, where we hope the best is to lift the mug. Many suitors, two for the final, one for the podium.

Who will lift this year's mug?

At Betshop you will find guaranteed odds of winning the Champions League.

Are you in the category of those who prefer the favorites?

Betshop offers Manchester City trophy conquest on 4,40. One of the best prices in the betting market.

Do you like surprises?

Η Tottenham which arrived last year ... a breath of conquest (finalist) is offered on 27.00. THE Dortmund who is the second favorite (behind Bayern) to win the German Championship, pays 36 times our bet.

Is it believed in football miracles?

Are you one of those who backs up your team to the end? The only Greek team to play in the Champions League is known to be Olympiacos, whose conquest will, if it happens, be a football miracle. Like Leicester in England a few years ago. Betshop offers 500.00 the trophy conquest by the Reds.

Current (17 / 09) betting odds

Lyon - Zenith: Score from both sides and confirm 1.77

Lyon is making a new effort this year, with a coach who is a fan of offensive football. It is very likely that we will see "full" games this year by the French, who are currently the most productive attack in the French league (12 goals in 5 matches).

Zenith possesses powerful offensive weapons (Azmun-Driusi-Jiuba) and can pose a threat. Goal / goal is located at 1.77 in Interwetten and is an option, while we seriously considered the home side, with the "double" (5,00 in Betshop) being high enough for the data (Zenit in recent years is well on its way to creating a competitive team).

Chelsea - Valencia: At 1.85 I buy the ace

Chelsea are coming off a spectacular 2-5 win at Wolves headquarters and want a crazy victory in front of their fans, with Valencia buttering on their bread, as the "Bats" are not enjoying their best days.

The Barcelona crash was painful, but it was to be expected, as after the sudden dismissal (at the owner's initiative) of Martellino (he was particularly dear) it created a negative mood and disorder.

The ace in 1,85 is not an opportunity, but with the data available, it can be an option.

Remember that at Infobeto you can take part in contests for the top events and claim rich gifts 

Sweet taste left PAOK yesterday's 2-2 against Ajax, as the race progressed had a great chance of winning, if it was a little more careful in the rebounds and did not fall into individual errors.

Even so, qualification remains open to the Doubles of the North, but it has clearly made its work much more difficult now.

Wednesday today, Olympic Day, which has a very difficult hurdle to overcome. Basaksehir is not just a team in Turkey, it has been the champions of the last three years and reached the spring (it was the first in a long time), but did not drink water.

However, it is no small task to compete with the level and experience teams of Galatasaray, Fenerbahce and Besiktas.

An indication of the level that the Turks have risen in recent years is that they have players such as Robinio, Wisca, Inler, Klissi, Elia, Deba Ba on the roster. Almost everyone with a rich career and performances from major European leagues.

In preparation, as the Turkish championship begins on August 18 participated in 5 friendly (1-2-2), where the last one came to draw 0-0 with AEK.

The good thing about Olympiacos, in addition to being better prepared, considering that he has competed in 2 official matches, is that his opponent has changed to a summer coach. Abdullah Abchi, the man with whom 3 came very close to the title, the one who created this group, is a thing of the past. He redeemed his amazing work, taking over Besiktas.

Olympiacos dominated with 4-0 at home to Victoria Plzen and advanced to the next round (0-0 in the first half). A very positive fact that he kept zero in his fireplace in two races, while there is satisfaction for his executive ability in the second part of the fight at “Karaiskakis”.

Bet on I. Basaksehir - Olympiacos

In his first game in the Czech Republic, Olympiacos was set up to score a goal in the offensive, but his main concern was to qualify for Athens. Now that the barrier has grown enough, we believe how to deploy more focused on his defensive duties. The Turks, on the other hand, have quality, but they lack the racing readiness. All this leads us to Half time 2.00 draw at Interwetten.

Check out today's Pame Betting coupon (by clicking here)

Liverpool is called to make overtakes in the rematch, after defeating 3-0 in the first game. If we were to score in the last few minutes, we would now be quite different. Klop knows that since they have not managed to get the odds, they will find the away goal and now they have to risk early. Things are all the more difficult, as aggressive Salah and Firmino will not be able to help in today's match.

Without being convincing, Barcelona has got a clear lead in qualifying and needs to do what is absolutely necessary. Ernesto Valverde rested in the championship match, using changes. He goes into the final straight of the season, won the title in Spain and has two more goals. The Cup and of course the Champions League, where it seeks to return to the top after the 2014-15 season.

Liverpool counts need early goals, Barcelona will find places and knows best to punish. I guess we'll watch a couple with rhythm and chances. It's hard for the odds to be as bad as the Barcelona match, and I end up with the choice of the many goals. The simple Over is played at low odds, I am willing to risk more with the 3-4 goal at 2.30, offered by Stoiximan.

Pamestoixima.gr: Favors for the Champions League cup

The couples of the quarter-finals came out for the top club competition! Juventus will find Ajax, Liverpool is called to overcome the Oporto barrier, the English civilian will be between Tottenham and Manchester City and finally Barcelona finds Manchester United on its way, perhaps in the most interesting octave game.

In addition to the great matches, the lotto showed the way the teams will follow to reach the final. The winner of the pair Ajax - Juventus will face the winner of Tottenham - Manchester City, while the Liverpool - Porto couple is on the same side with the Barcelona - Manchester United pair.

Which team is for you the winner after and today's draw? Join the new Pamestoixima.gr and find super odds for the winner of this year's Champions League!

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Juventus is asked to overturn 2-0 from the Madrid game. He has quality and experience, but he has to make one of the most convincing appearances of recent years. The presence of Cristiano Ronaldo gives one more plus to Massimo Alegri, with the Portuguese being perfectly aware of similar situations. On Friday, he was warmed up with the comfortable 4-1 in front of Udinese, with the bianconier's technician breathing into basic footballers.

Atletico is required to maintain the strong lead, but has never been secured. Diego Simeonne is expected to play massive defenses, close the venues, and whenever he is given the chance to "hit" in a hard assault. The group stage was suspended with heavy 4-0 in Westfalen from Dortmund, a sample that could be a guide for the opposing team.

Betting on the ace is played at 1.75 and of course there is no point in dealing with it. I believe quite a bit in the possibilities of Juventus, he has all the information to fight to the end. OR qualification of the "bianconeri" is not considered improbable, especially with what we watched last week and the 4th in stoiximan it is tempting.

Despite considerable absences in recent weeks, Tottenham has found solutions to showcase its quality. It comes from three consecutive wins in the Premier League, all of which have been a bit difficult, but it keeps them positive. With Leicester, Yoris had to take a penalty shootout to avoid being equaled, staying alive in the hunt for the summit. To be found in the Champions League knockout, he opened the gift that Inter Milan gave to the group finals and finished second. Ally (middle) and Kane (aggressive) will miss another match.

Dortmund is not in good shape, within a week he was disqualified from the Cup. Meanwhile, he saw the difference from the second place be reduced, after the home 3-3 opposite Hoffenheim. He scored three goals in 74o minute, but then the child's mistakes in his defense cost the three-pointer. He will have to correct enough in that particular piece if he wants to reach the Champions League.

Showdown without a clear favorite, with all points accruing the same verification rate. Tottenham looks good, but the two absences will play a decisive role. Dortmund defensively does not inspire stability, midfielder presses fires and I expect open match with pace and goals. Select the Over 2.5 to the satisfactory 1.80 in stoiximan.

Bilbao welcomes Bate for the last match of the Champions League and unfortunately for both teams it will be the last match they will give for the top inter-club competition, however there is also the Europa League and both teams will claim the third place to continue their course there.

Bilbao plays at home, is clearly a better team than Bate and is comfortable with 2 results, with a win and a draw. On the contrary, little Bate is chasing the miracle and the qualifying victory in San Mamés to steal the 3rd place that leads to Europe.

Bilbao, with the exception of the patratrak suffered from Cordoba and lost 0-1 for the championship, had a form and was running a lot of victories and positive results and started climbing in the scoring.

Bate on the other hand was badly in the Champions League this year as it was by far the weakest team out of the 32 that participated in the tournament, they defeated Bilbao 2-1 2 months ago (Bilbao was then terribly deformed) and in the remaining 4 matches they were dragged from Porto and Shakhtar with 3s, 5s and 7s.

I think Bate will open to double-qualifying in Spain and there he is going to hit it, Bilbao defensively defends her and I think it is a good chance for the home team to break out for Cordoba's defeat in the previous season. / K but also to bid farewell to the institution with a good appearance, as it will be difficult for the Champions League to come out again and the fans of the Spanish team will be able to re-raise the sheet after 2015.

With these and with them I see victory I broke out for the senior hosts and I play the Asian Handicap (-1.5) in 2.150 and I am asking to pay a clean victory of the Spaniards with 2-0 and up.

Basel managed last night, endured in England and qualified for the next stage against Liverpool. Today is the end of the match for the current season, as the last entries will be blocked.

In 5 group, the indifferent grade Bayern, having secured the first in the group, welcomes it CSKA Moscow, which burns for degrees. The Russians tie up with City and Roma, they are looking for a victory in order to hope for qualification. Of course a lot will depend on the result in the second match between the last two in the eternal city. Everything will depend on her mood Bayern, which has five key outside, two alternates among them and one Pizarro, plus two substitute goalkeepers. Almost all the best will be played Russians. Of course the betting value is in the double and in all its variants and coverings. Attractive biplane offered at 1,80 by Stoiximan.

All scenarios are open for her SchalkeAt 7^ο group. It can get qualified in Champions League, to continue on Yuropa or be excluded from the sequel. She faces her Maribor, which only asks for the victory to qualify Yuropa. With many problems Germans, have interfered with the three consecutive wins in the championship, a result of the new system put forward Die Matteo. In between he had accepted the pentar from Chelsea. The Slovenes have three draws in their active and both home are completed with the same 1-1 score. This was also the result of the first match between the two teams. Very low the double price offered, we keep the ambiscer which was verified in the last three instances for the Maribor and which is offered at 1,61 byStoiximan.

Schinarakis Michalis

@sxoinarakis

FB: Michael Sxoinarakis

Matsara at "Olimbico". Only one of the two will qualify. We start with the shortest possible scenario, to make the two teams stand and CSKA to win the indifferent Bayern in Germany. Then the Russians will qualify. In the event that CSKA does not prevail, the tie with 1-1 and above gives the qualifying to the City. In the event that the Roma win or the match is scored 0-0, then the Italians will qualify. Except for the unexpected, it will become a closed game that will be judged on the details. The same thing happened in the first match in England. 1-1 came in a match that at that time did not have the incentive they had today and will probably fight with more caution and bigger defensive orientations. The under is given at 2.07 at bet365.

Life or death game for Juventus. If he is defeated by Atletico and Olympiacos wins, he is left out of the Champions League. However, neither the Spaniards are indifferent. If they are defeated by two goals and more, then Juventus will qualify as the first and Atletico will be second. Something that they would not like the "rock bang", since obviously the first of the groups will have a more favorable draw. Therefore they will both chase the goal. Atletico has scored in all the Champions League games and in 13 consecutive matches in the championship. He did not just score the 1 racing at 0-0 with Rayo. It will logically score today. It is even more likely that the home team will score goals after playing at home and will chase the goal from the start of the match. Both will compete with their basic skills. I will support it G / G. Bet365 pays 2.10.

The question I raised in the previous text was whether PAOK could manage the excitement of the very big double he had just recorded a few days earlier in " Karaiskakis ". In practice, it turned out that no matter how he tried Angelos Anastasiades, he did not manage to "land" his players, resulting in the "cuff" in Pigadia. The fact that the "biceps" does not have in the changing rooms many players who have the experience of winning a championship, may bet points in the future. However, after several years we have a championship again and that's a pleasure. If Panathinaikos continues racing, we may have a ... exciting championship. Let's go to the European!

For Olympic, the goal is clear. Win and wait for us to see what Juventus has done. I recall that the only combination that gives him the qualification in the Champions League phase "16" is victory against Malmö and at the same time defeat Juventus from Atletico Madrid. However, because in football we should not forget ... the doctrine of Nikos Anastopoulos ("if you can not win, make sure you do not miss"), it is also worth remembering that in the case of Malmö, the "red-white" many "will also lose the ... qualifying at the" 32 "of the Euroleague League. Unique absences are Milivojevic's defensive midfielder and the extreme striker Durant, with Mitchell heading for 4-2-3-1 with Maniatis - Edigas on the midfield and Fuser - Dommies - Kassami, behind the only promoted Benitez or Mitroglu). At its head, Olympiacos always creates many phases for goals and given that Malmö has no reason to play defensively (winning is the one at the Europa League), the over1.80 looks good choice.

"Final" is PAOK - Ghibabam, with both teams fighting for qualifying at the Europa League 32. "One way" the victory for the "biceps", for two results the French team will play. Which comes from two impressive victories in the Champions League (5-1 inside Caen, 3-2 away from Reims) and seems to find rhythm at the right time… Javellas (arthropod defender), Maduro (midfielder) are ready, in contrast to Stopper Katsika and right back Skondra who remain injured. I estimate that PAOK will enter the field very strongly, trying to take advantage of the "hot" Toumba, to surprise the French, but also to overcome the "shock" of the defeat in Xanthi. Reasonably betI would choose the ace of a half in 2.80.

Despite the tie in "Th. Kolokotronis', Panathinaikos is in good shape and reminds of the last round of the last round. Especially mid-term, with Berg's return, we again see a team with rapid growth, "chemistry" and automation. Given that the players of Yiannis Anastasiou want to win their European victories, I have the impression that Estoril is not a better team and even if the match is scarcely indifferent (both teams have been excluded) I am willing to take the 2.20 ace.

Also notable is the game in Belgrade between Partizan and Asteras Tripolis. I keep the fact that the Arcadians have scored at 10 / 11 this year in the Euro Cup, that Partizan has a rich talent with mediums (and several players being watched by major European clubs) and I choose it over, which I think 2.15 escapes ...

Benfica welcomes Leverkusen for 6 in the Champions League and the scoring motivation is one-sided.

Benfica is 4 and totally indifferent as 4 points is blocked and neither hopes for 3 the position that leads to the yuropa liga and reminds nothing of last year's impressive team.

On the other hand, Leverkusen is impressive this year, as it does not come out of the Champions League, this year not only 3 in the Bundesliga, but also 9 points and 1 in the Champions League and victory over indifferent Benfica seals the first.

The first match where no team was indifferent in Germany, Leverkusen showed its superiority and leveled with 3-1 in a match that completely dominated. The Germans have been in shape lately as they come from quite good results as during the break 3 weeks ago they seemed to catch their breath.

It is also rumored that Benfica being indifferent will only line up substitutes and Leverkusen is meant to be full, but it is important that Leverkusen is not in the equals because 66% (depending on what is done in the other match) will lose the first when it goes for and only for victory.

Motivation, form, class, news are all in favor of the guest. The double is in odds from 2.20 to 2.30 but in bet8 I find it 2.36 and I bet it strongly from tonight. As I consider the performance very good and if the rumor that Benfica will line up with only substitutes becomes a reality then tomorrow the double is likely to fall. Anyway, Leverkusen is a better team this year than Benfica and the motivation is one-sided.

The last match of the Champions League and the last and excluded Galatasaray is facing Arsenal.

Will you tell me "But you are well in your favor now for a Champions League match that is 9 December?" and yet yes

Galatasaray has nothing to do with previous years 2 this year in the Champions League is the worst among all teams in Europe having achieved 1 finish and 3 teams and has taken just 1 draw and this first match with Anderlecht. In Belgium against Anderlecht he went for a final hope for the Europa League, but he hopped this hopeless losing with 2-0. Prandelli after a long time, he would have said one thing, but what to do, Telles has forgotten that he is a left-back, remembered Bruma after a while, 83 also ate Selcuk Inan and will be punished. Galatas in the event has accepted 15 goals in the set

After this result, Prantelli is said to be leaving (not to give up only if you let him down), of course whoever comes for the time is wondering what he will do.

Arsenal is as we know it won Dordwand with 2-0 and math is now qualified. He was ahead of Sanogo in 2 minute and Alexis Sanchez locked the victory.

What Arsenal will try to do is take first place and that is why it should win Galatas.

It is too early to talk about talking about the absences of the two teams. The reason I get from now on is the reason for performance. The odds are open and the Arsenal double is given to 1,83 for me the performance should be somewhere in 1,60. Arsenal even with the reserve will not joke and will play for the victory, Galatas that day and even coach have changed racing I do not think to change something, so before the performance drops we get Arsenal double.

Olympiacos is being tested at Vietente Calderon against Atletico Madrid with the Spaniards winning to win the qualification round and Olympiacos is looking for a positive result that will take her to the last game with Malmö and play her qualification in the next round.

Atletico's pioneer with the only defeat to Olympiakos at the Fellowship has 3 wins and with 9 points he holds the qualifying affair in his hands. He won Malmö easily with 3-1.

In the championship he won Malaga with 3-1 and continued the hunt for Real and Barcelona. He was ahead of 42 with 2-0, Malaga dropped to 64 but a player above played on 84 and won.

Matzoukic is in doubt but will fight while Miranda will be absent.

Olympiacos in a difficult group tries to qualify and the Atletico game will be a strong test and the result he wants is better than Juventus.

In Italy he did well, he had Roberto in the goal again in a big day, but he was finally defeated 3-2. Juventus was ahead with Pirlo from a direct foul, equalized with Eidiga at 24, in fact it was ahead at 61 but in 2 minutes at 65 and 66 it bent resulting in defeat.

For the championship what we have is that we do not have racing weeks for 2, but the Presidents are playing ball, Marinakis puts them with Melissanidis of AEK with 2 to answer and we have in the depths Thamidis of Skai to look for stacks. In short, we are a very nice atmosphere.

In the last match with Panthrakikos he won with 5-1, even in this show there are also indications that he was set in Asian Handicap.

Now in the races there is no significant absence

Atletico is at its head because 21 matches 19 wins in European Cups, while Olympiacos has a problem with non-racing inaction. He has to fight from November 9. Nice Atletico strong at home can win any one I do not say but I think I think she can look Atletico in the eyes. So why not make Mars No2? Remember? for the Europa League 2010 / 2011 1,10 5,50 tie and double 10 odds, of course, when the Turks were the legal one. Double with 1,5 + advantage at Olympiacos at Asian Handicap. In the event that Olympiacos is defeated with 2 goals and more then we lose the bet.

An important game in Russia against Zenit and Benfica for the 3 group with the two teams having 4 points and wanting 3 points to have an advantage in the last race.

Zenit in the championship has at least gained the edge over 2's Tsa and even won the Kuban with 1-0 and so has an 8 score advantage and can look at other things like the Champions League.

At the top inter-league event, things are not so good at the moment. He was defeated in Leverkusen inside and out and now the victory against Benfica is a one-way street to become the favorite for 2.

Benfica in the championship first made a small difference in 2 points from 2 Guimaraes and 3 from 3 in Porto. In the championship he won outside of Madrid Madrid with 2-1, of course, with the help of arbitration.

In the Champions League he won Monaco with 1-0 and now makes dreams for 2's position by winning Zenit.

In the 1 round Zenit had won off with 2-0

Difficult play, two teams are fighting for the same purpose, within the borders and both teams are doing well and will have to prove it for the Champions League, fearing not to make a mistake I expect to have few goals for this I will go with Under 2.5

Four consecutive positive predictions for the last three days in the tips category are good performance. I wish they could continue ... But the forecasts in the category of analyzes were very good, after they passed on Sunday in the derby AC Milan - INTER, XASNAMX of Sassuolo and the ace of Catania, on Monday the G / G of Genoa and yesterday under the Roma ... Tonight, Juventus travels to Sweden for the Malmö match. Game - final for the Italians, if they do not win tonight, then they risk being out of the Champions League, even if they win the last Atletico! This will happen if Olympiacos draws a draw in Madrid and wins Malmö in Faliro. In that case, Juventus will need a win with 2 goals difference (and above) against Atletico in the last game. But if he lost from Malmö and Olympiakos did not win Atletico, but Malma prevailed, then Juventus's last game remains out. There are many and complex scenarios, but the bottom line is that the Italians need victory. On the side of the home side, with victory over Juventus, they are also coming into the game of qualification and everything will be played in the last game in "Karaiskaki". The "Grand Lady" passed like ... train on Saturday from "Olimpico" prevailing Lazio's comfortable with 2-3. Qualification is in its hands, since if it wins both remaining matches then it goes into the next round. In any case, she has excellent defense, Malmie has no toys on her feet, her attack is of little use and No Goal is the best choice. OR bet365 pays 1.61.

Bayern has only managed to win in the league, scoring in every game it has given. Hosted by City in Manchester. The Germans have already qualified, but they are never fighting indifferent and purposeful. They will play an open and aggressive game as always. On the other hand, after the home defeat by CSKA, the English have no room for backlash. They will chase the goals from the beginning. However, the hosts will have two important absences, Fernandinios and Toure. The prehistory is almost divided, as the Germans count 3 wins and City 2. In the league, Bayern comes from four over Hoffenheim and City from a difficult win over Swansea with 2-1. I consider the over as the best option for two teams to hunt from the start by playing aggressive football. In bet365, over pays 1.57.

Game for 6 and APOEL welcome Barcelona.

The Cypriot team is in the last position of the Champions League table with 1 rank and it got it against Ajax in. In the championship at the top derby with Apollo Limassol, 0-0 had a draw in a not so good game and a lot of complaints from the arbitration.

Apollon defending this year in Europe is in a good shape at the 4 racing group has accepted 4 goals, of course the prehistory is not on the side against the Spaniards since he has no win in but 4 draws and 2 defeats.

Barcelona has demonstrated a strength in its championship on Saturday against Sevilla by dissolving it with 5-1 at Camp Nou and Messi has beaten another record by reaching 253 goals and became 1^th scorer in the history of the Primera Division surpassing Termo Thara.

In the first round, he won with difficulty Apoel with the Cypriots having put a "coach" in front of the goal.

Barcelona is coming to APOEL's headquarters for victory, and for 1, it is surely the last game that Paris has where it will win if it locks 1 after it has done its duty in Cyprus. On the other hand APOEL aims to close as best as he can and will surely play drums, I bet on APOEL's defense and I will not go with Under 2.5 but with Under 3.5